Dear St. Thomas students and faculty,
I understand that you have issues with your school or place of employment for not having affordable and adequate parking. Instead of taking that issue up with the school, you have sought out parking in the neighborhood, making your problem ours. We have lived here for 15 years and I have never seen it like this.
Here is some of what your problem is costing this neighborhood.
We have to wait until either really late or weekends to do grocery shopping because we have no place to park close to our homes and unload our groceries. This means on weekends where we could spend time with our kids, we are running big errands. You have made it hard for delivery trucks to pick up or drop things off.
All winter you have left our small kids and the elderly who live in the neighborhood to climb over huge snow mounds because you blocked walks. You also left them to walk long icy paths from alley to house where some have slipped. You parked during snow emergencies where plows had to go around to dig only you out and leave the neighborhood to have to clean up all the snow off the street because the plows could not keep up this year. You have sat in your car with it running to eat your lunch. Thanks for the additional fresh air.
If we have to run to pick up our kids or any short trip (like coffee with a friend) you have taken that joy away because we know that we will not have a place to park when we return.
You have raced down our streets and turned around fast because you are in a hurry (this puts the young kids in danger). You have tossed your cigarette butts on the boulevard, as well as your garbage, which has made its way to our yards and streets. You have spit on our sidewalks.
There is more … a lot more.
Because you will not take the battle on to solve your problem, you have left this whole area seeking permit parking only. We have to take time out and away from our kids to have meetings with the city. We have to pay to park on our streets – the ones that we pay property taxes to fix and maintain.
Thank you for caring about how you walk through the world and who you affect. Above all, thank you for making your smaller problem our bigger problem.
Christine Anderson, St. Thomas neighbor
Christine, While I certainly agree with you that some St. Thomas students are disrespectful (with the cigarettes and driving too fast and whatnot), the vast majority of us are not. Just like many problems, this one lies with a few that ruin it for the whole. As far as parking on “your” streets, we, as students who live and work in this community just like you, have as much right to park legally on a public street. I know that if I can get free parking instead of paying $500 a year, I will most definitely use it. However, I only park on streets that are not permit parking only. If it’s not posted as permit parking only, then ANYONE can park there. A person’s property line extends to the street, not into it. I do agree that safety problems should certainly be addressed. However, parking in a safe, respectful, and legal manner is not the problem. It’s just part of living in the city. Sorry! Once the permit signs go up, I’ll move my car elsewhere. Until then, or until St. Thomas parking becomes more affordable for a college student who works a part time job, I will be legally parked on the surrounding streets.
This is possibly one of the funniest neighborhood rants I’ve ever read. St. Thomas students spitting on sidewalks?…shame on them. HA!
It seems like every other week St. Thomas neighbors are complaining about this or that. Geez people, get over yourself. Your very lucky to have St. Thomas in the neighborhood. St. Thomas alone keeps many of the surrounding businesses alive and thriving. Compared to alot of other colleges and universitys St. Thomas and it’s faculty and students are superior. There are alot of things we don’t like about living with non-St. Thomas neighbors too you know. Like having to worry about getting the cops called on us for a noise complaint at 11:00 PM (were in college) but we deal with it and accomidate because we know we are in the city with other people. Start embracing the fact that St. Thomas is here in your community. complaining about parking on the street?? ARE YOU KIDDING?? Its called the CITY, there is never enough parking in the city. Go live in the suburbs or heres an idea..park in your garage.
I wish the solution to our so-called “smaller problem” of the university overcharging for parking could be as simple as working with the school to lower prices. But if we want to talk numbers, let’s look at them. The going rate for a parking space for commuting students is $250/year. Divided by 30 weeks (2 semesters) and again by 5 commuting days/week, the student pays $1.67/day. And that isn’t a terrible asking price per se. But! At the end of the week, $8 is at least another meal on the table. So if I can find on street parking for free, I’ll pocket the $8 for food or gas or rent or books or to put in the bank so I can pay off my loans when I graduate. Further, while the university website does not offer clear numbers on available parking, I suspect demand surpasses space. The site says the school employs 1,954 and has an undergraduate enrollment of 6,274. Subtract the population living on campus (2030) and combine students and employees, the school is faced with finding parking for about 6,198. Even if parking was free on campus, there would still be need for parking on neighborhood streets. So, I wish it was as easy as complaining to the admin about cost, but it isn’t. Between the neighborhood and the school, students are constantly stuck between a rock and a hard…
Dear Christine Anderson,
I understand that you have issues with St. Thomas for not having affordable and adequate parking. Instead of taking that issue up with the school, you have sought out the students and faculty, making your problem theirs. They have attended and worked here for 126 years and have never managed parking regulations.
True, students and faculty may be able to fix your smaller issues (littering, speeding), but solving the bigger problem (insufficient parking) requires contacting St. Thomas or the City of St. Paul, as it appears you have done. Although I understand that takes time away from your kids now, it should create more time for them when it’s done by eliminating the current parking issues. Plus, resident parking permits are only $10/year. Such a price likely does not outweigh the benefit of solving your overall issue. Rather, it sounds like a better option than asking similarly frustrated community members (students and faculty) to solve your problem for you.
Thank you for caring about how you walk through the world and who you affect. Above all, thank you for making your smaller problem St. Thomas students’ and faculty’s bigger problem.
Grant Goerke, St. Thomas alumnus
Wow, just wow. I’m sorry I “took the joy out of meeting for coffee with a friend” since I’m about 20x poorer than you and can’t afford a parking permit. My problems on a day to day basis seem much more mundane than yours I suppose. I only work 30 hours a week and have at least 30 hours of school work per week. My suggestions is this: Move to the suburbs!
As a commuting student, I know that it is often difficult to find parking, even when you do have a permit! I am sorry that our troubles have affected the neighborhood, but it is not something we are trying to do. A majority of us would prefer to be respectful and park on campus, but that isn’t really possible when there isn’t adequate parking to be had. The fees for parking really aren’t that severe but it does suck when I pay for my parking only to find that there isn’t anywhere to park and find myself going into the neighborhood to find parking.
It does not do the reputation of St. Thomas a favor when one talks disrespectfully to a community member and then misspells words in their response.
Mrs. Anderson, as a mother, has a right to express her concern. The excuse “were (which should be we’re) in college” is a terrible excuse. We are examples to her children when we live in the same community. She is completely right in asking more out of us as people who her children see everyday.
I agree, parking is a huge hassle and having a new building on one of our old parking lots is not ideal, but it is no excuse to act like we own this neighborhood.
Our school’s mission statement is: Inspired by Catholic intellectual tradition, the University of St. Thomas educates students to be morally responsible leaders who think critically, act wisely and work skillfully to advance the common good.
This is all that Mrs. Anderson is asking of us.
Well on the plus side, Christine, St. Thomas is responsible for a lot of your property value. Woo hoo! I don’t see how parking destroys relationships with your children, but I agree it would be nice for St. Thomas to have more parking available. I budget each semester for a parking permit, and I still wind up parking on the street sometimes as there is no spot.
Long Live My Bicycle! No parking hassles, insurmountable health benefits. always gets me where I need to be in time.
Although I also wholeheartedly disagree with the way in which Mrs. Anderson has stated her case, those of you who are students responding really need to use spellcheck (my God!). Though you may have valid points, your validity is about as idiotic as the points brought up in the article itself.
I’m looking at you, Sullivan.
Unlike some folks commenting, I will not pretend that “we’re in college” is an adequate excuse for rude and disrespectful behavior. This issue seems to be part of a larger problem between St. Thomas and the neighborhood. Neighbors attack students, students attack neighbors, but neither party ever sees the positive things that the other provides. Students, the neighbors provide a nice, safe neighborhood around St. Thomas. The atmosphere created is a positive one and a good place to live. Please respect their property and treat them with respect. Neighbors, please realize that St. Thomas is the largest employer in the area. Its presence boosts property values and enhances the opportunities and resources available. As stated earlier, there are well over 7000 people that work here and go to this school. That is a HUGE economic boost to the surrounding community…many businesses would not be able to operate without the support of students and faculty. Please respect the fact that we are in fact contributing members of this community and have just as much right to use the community resources (roads, parks, parking, etc.) as you do. How about we all start treating each other a little better and recognizing the good things that the other brings to Merriam Park.
This is ridiculous. You have no proof that it is only St. Thomas students who are the problem. It could be anyone, not just students. Also, I am a resident of this area, so I have just as much of a right to park on these streets as you do. And please don’t blame students for costing time with your children. That is just complete BS. I understand that some students act disrespectfully, but you will get that at any campus (or anywhere for that matter). I agree that there needs to be more options for parking, especially since the student body is growing. But don’t put all the blame on the students. You live in the city, there is obviously going to be parking issues. Also this area is increasing in popularity causing more car traffic (not from only the students). So please don’t put all the blame on the students. If you have that big of a problem with this, bring it to the city, not to the students of St. Thomas. One more thing, spitting on the sidewalks? Are you kidding me? There are much bigger things to worry about then spitting on the sidewalks. Maybe if you stop worrying about others spitting on the sidewalk, you would have more time with your children. Don’t categorize all St. Thomas students with the few that you have deemed “disrespectful”. Thanks
**The neighbors surrounding St. Thomas from the Merriam Park area find ways to complain about anything and everything regarding St. Thomas, and they are seldom friendly.**
This argument, while a gross overstatement of reality, is similar to Ms. Anderson’s statement about St. Thomas Students.
I could provide several examples of how rude neighbors can be just because we are of the college age, but I am not here to rant as Ms. Anderson has.
Ms. Anderson, if you think that students can influence policy at St. Thomas at a macro level, I would urge you to look at the several articles regarding the new food policies for campus clubs (the vast majority of students have complained to USG and several other outlets, but it was a decision made by the board of trustees). We have not *chosen* to “not take the battle”, we are shut out of the decision making process at St. Thomas.
Finally, I would urge you to strongly consider moving from the area. St. Thomas is growing at a rapid rate (and I doubt it will slow down) without a large emphasis on parking issues (the student center only holds parking for 115 cars). Parking in the area is bound to only get worse, so rather than complain about your dwindling quality of life, make a move to better it.
The last time I checked, the streets and sidewalks were public property where anyone can park and walk unless there are signs marked otherwise. Maybe Christine should take her own advice and attempt to resolve her concerns and issues by asking the city of St. Paul to put a permit-only parking zone in front of her house. Homeowners in the area have no absolute right to the street area in front of their house.
I have seen some comments relating to my comment “were in college”..re-read the context in which that “were in college” was made. What a ridiculous post this was in the first place, come on people I would hope that we all have bigger problems and concerns than this, if not please keep your small, petty inconveniences to yourself. lifes not fair, learn to deal. And with that im going to class so that one day I can get a job and afford a bigger drive way to park my SUV’s.
As a commuter student who parks on Lincoln Ave east of Cleveland — which is now the nearest non-permit parking to either north or south campus — I certainly understand where Ms. Anderson is coming from. As more and more streets have gone permit-only (Goodrich, I’m looking at you), Lincoln is more congested this year than ever before. It’s awful. It’d drive me crazy, as a resident. That said, I don’t appreciate Ms. Anderson’s rant (is there any other word for it?). I don’t *like* walking 4+ blocks to class every day (more like 6 if I’m going to BEC). I have no other financially viable recourse. And if you think the administrators give a whit what the students think about UST policy, you have another thing coming. It’s often obvious that most of them don’t even know *what* UST students think.
20 years ago, UST’s St. Paul campus was *larger* than it is today (7,686 students enrolled *at St. Paul*, vs. 8,712 in 1991). Parking permits, on the other hand, cost a pittance — under $100 annually, my elders tell me. As a result, everyone who could parked on campus, and there was some spillover to nearby streets, but not too much because none of them had gone permit-only yet. I do not know what has driven the cost so high since 1991, but it isn’t population.
Almost every comment fails to see that the “bigger” problem is something that everyone can fix without too much difficulty. Look at this from a resident’s viewpoint. While we are students, we don’t live here for longer than a semester at a time. There’s a new batch every year and the amount of respect the neighbor’s receive decreases every year. While we can slough this off as ridiculous quite easily (all of the above comments), whatever happened to being courteous? Do you really want to live every day without ever realizing how you’re affecting others? How about if you have to park in the neighborhood, do it in a way that inconveniences them the least? Or talk to the school about their horrible parking amenities? If enough people decide to make things change, they will. We can walk through life self-centered and pushing people out of our way as we climb the ladder of life or we can show a little compassion and perhaps make people glad we’re in their life… Which one sounds better? Which kind of person would you rather have in your life? Why not do our best every day and care for each other instead of getting defensive? If you’re doing your best, then there’s no need to be defensive.
This whole rant is absurd- to blame the problems of the neighborhood on students alone is ridiculous. You would be wise to remember that students live in the houses off campus on your streets, fine you don’t want us there? Let’s see what happens to your property values when hundreds of homes go up for sale in the community. While you have been in the neighborhood for 15 years I would remind you that you knew UST was there when you chose your home as it has been around over 100 years. The complaints about spitting on sidewalks is comical, the “air” being corrupted because an engine is running, and the cigarette buts (which could also be from students, community members or guests who are walking). Let’s get serious here because this letter sounds more like an attempt to complain about everything you could think of. And to James who questioned the increase in parking fees- it is called supply and demand, when parking lots were removed to make way for new buildings (AAC, the student center and McNealy Hall are all new since the time you mentioned) supply was driven down, thus demand goes up. Pretty basic logic.
First, Peter, I want you to know that I have been in my house for two years (my roommate for three years), so some St. Thomas students aren’t as transient as you are implying.
Secondly, I could give you several examples of how neighbors have showed UST students (including myself) little or no respect. This is not just the fault of the students, but rather neighbors must understand to get respect, they must give respect as well.
Peter, can you tell me how to “inconvenience them the least” by parking on Ms. Anderson’s street? It seems as though there is no real way to accomplish that goal.
Next, Peter, please show me evidence that the respect given to the neighbors “decreases every year”… do you have empirical data? If not, then I would suggest that the problems of the neighborhood vs. the school are relatively the same as they have been for years with both parties at fault.
Finally, I would encourage you to talk to the administration/trustees about possible remedies. The cost of putting more parking facilities is astronomical- millions of dollars. I doubt you will get “enough” people to make parking an issue that the trustees really care about… students have more important issues than what neighbors think of them… that should be the job of the…
University of Saint Thomas
After the “neighbors rant” about Tennis Courts on campus I have a deaf ear to them. No sunshine in this neighborhood. They have broken the chain of kindness by which our society is bound together.
St. Thomas has been here since the 19th century. These people chose to live here, knowing full well there was a college in their front yards. Nothing more needs to be said.
UST has been here much longer than any of the current neighbors. You know what you’re getting yourself into when you move close to a college campus (or if you don’t, you’re not so smart). My solution: if you don’t like it, then you should move. There are plenty of quiet areas in Saint Paul, and even more quiet areas in the Suburbs. We won’t miss you!
Perhaps neighbors AND students could be a little more respectful and non-judgmental towards one another in both our discourse and behavior in the neighborhood? We are ALL stewards of this area of our city. Some of the students’ replies tell me they need to learn a little about respect and “give and take” when it comes to living in a new neighborhood as first-time adults. Also, why would a student think he or she has the right or are “entitled” to move into an established neighborhood and tell responsible and caring residents of 25 years, that they should be the ones to move? If you want to share the neighborhood, you have to be just as caring and responsible, and think beyond yourselves. The world is not just YOUR oyster. And as a loyal employee at St. Thomas for almost 26 years who is proud of the neighborhood and university, and doesn’t park on your streets, I ask the you to please remember what St. Thomas has given to the area, state and broader society in educational opportunities and caring graduates. I have seen many of them come and go, and have found the students very respectful. So, let’s keep an eye on the few who need to be taught how to share others’ spaces and start the discourse again, speaking to and treating others like we’d like to be spoken to and…
@Tom: One easy way to be the least inconvenient is to park so that you’re not blocking anyone’s front walk. I always try to park between houses, so the neighbors still have that space immediately in front of their homes. That’s been increasingly difficult this year, though…
@John: You’ve got a good theory, but I don’t think it holds up. Parking costs started shooting up in the early 1990s and have stayed on a more-or-less steady trajectory skyward. The AARC and the student center are both new just last year, and at least partly offset by the Anderson Ramp. If I’m not mistaken, McNeely Hall’s construction had a net *positive* effect on the number of available spaces on campus. I think Morrison Hall and the Byrne Residence were worse in terms of parking, but you’d have to talk to the College Archive to be sure. At any rate, though I am quite the free-marketeer (which is a delightful word), I don’t think Adam Smith alone can explain the *vast* increase in parking costs, which approaches a thousand percent.
Getting real numbers on all this, by the by, would make a great TommieMedia story.
Ms Olsen, What have the neighbors given? Public parking on a public street, but Ms Olsen doesn’t want that. Tennis courts on UST land, but neighbors protested that, They use UST land to walk dogs, ride bikes, walk, jog, picnic behind BEC, and go to events. The neighbors rant about any developement of UST land. They talk in negative terms about all UST students even though they are talking about actions of a few. Respect, sorry not today….”won’t you be my neighbor”.
It’s always something that a neighbor finds the need to complain about. I’m sorry for parking on YOUR street. Oh wait, you don’t own the street, the city does. Get over it and park in your garage and find something else more productive to do rather than complaining about students parking on the street when they need to attend classes and other on campus activities. I don’t know what you expect when you live in the City and in a neighborhood that surrounds a College campus…
Best part of the letter: “You have sat in your car with it running to eat your lunch. Thanks for the additional fresh air.”
Unreal. What, are you sitting in a lawn chair directly behind the running car that you’re getting all the fumes? Haha
Some people just need to find something to complain about I guess.
I’ve lived in the neighborhood for over 10 years and never once protested the growth of Saint Thomas. I like living near a college, I appreciate the businesses that college students support, I enjoy the energy that new students bring to our neighborhood every year.
But I have to tell you, I am shocked by the discourse in this thread of responses. Ms. Anderson is pointing out a very real problem: the congestion on neighborhood streets is making every-day life for your neighbors difficult. The disrespect with which some of your classmates stride through our lives is tarnishing the reputation of your whole school and the values for which it stands. These are real problems and we need to resolve them, not beat each other over the head. All Ms. Anderson has done is hold up a mirror, are you proud of what you see?
The parking problem has become worse over the past two years. This may be a combination of changes at Saint Thomas (buildings replacing on campus lots), changes in the neighborhood (more and more streets resorting to permit parking only), and changes in the world at large (already overpriced parking passes being even less affordable in this recession). The few streets in the area that have resisted permit parking are now bearing the brunt of the problem.
(continued…
What you fail to realize is that these streets are your friends. We’ve never chased you away in the past, and we are reluctant to do so even now. Read Ms. Anderson’s letter again: open your eyes to the behavior of your fellow Tommies. Just because you park on our street does not mean you need to drop your trash on our street. Just because you park here does not mean you need to dash at 40 MPH down the block. You can use our streets and show respect for the neighborhoods, you can ask your friends to do the same.
And let us all work together to solve this problem. You say the administration does not listen to you? Here is an opportunity for students to work with neighbors to get the administration to make some changes. Lets work together to get the parking rates down. Lets work together to raise awareness on campus that Saint Thomas values should not be dropped when you leave the campus boundaries.
(continued…
If we don’t work together, then you can be sure that the neighbors will work alone, and you won’t really like the result of that very much. A few more streets will go permit only, any opportunity for nearby parking on days the lots fill up will be even more blocks away. Sure, you may be gone by then, but your fellow students, faculty, and staff will pay for your shortsightedness.
So, put down the bludgeons, lets look for some creative ideas! Does anyone have one out there? I’ve heard Tommies are a bright and creative bunch, lets see some of that thinking applied to a very real problem right on your own doorstep!
…Eric
Spitting on sidewalks and cigarette butts on the boulevard? Hows about the Dog poop in my front yard? I don’t know any students who walk their dogs down Summit avenue. I would take spit on the sidewalk over feces any day. Or what about the dozens of Lexus and Mercedes sedans that tear down the street as if the world were about to end every afternoon? St. Thomas might have some wealthy students, but I dont think the average student drives and E-Class to school. Point being…… students are definitely not the only people who don’t always consider others. Its street parking in the city. nobody likes how it works. I’m sorry you can’t meet your friends for coffee, or buy groceries during a weekday…. Neither can we. We think the parking problem sucks, and we feel the challenges presented by it much more than any neighbor does.
@Mr. Celeste: I did send a note to the city council a couple months ago suggesting a scheme whereby each street in the permit-only zone would auction off a sustainable annual number of permits to UST students and faculty (say, 5 or 10) at a market-clearing price (which would be highest closest to campus). The revenues would go straight back to the residents. I haven’t heard anything further on it, and I know there are some problems with it, but it’s the best I came up with in four years of thinking about it.
I’m sure a fair chunk of students would happily sign on to any workable proposal to solve this problem. We hate the whole thing almost as much as you must — the unpredictability of parking spaces in the non-permit zones, the distance from the school, the bitter cold walks of early February, the dirty looks from the longtime residents. Do you have any suggestions to bring to the table?
Mr. Celeste, We are only responding to the hate filled letter written by Ms.Anderson. No where does she suggest working together or that some of her neighbors exhibit the same behavior (see Rob’s post). Having attended the neighborhood meeting about Tennis Courts on campus I was shock by the negative attack on the St Thomas Tennis Players who just wanted a place to play on campus. You might not be against whatever St Thomas does with it’s land, but alot of your neighbors are. To many of our neighbors, your current state of mind will make you irritable, depressed, and prematurely old. News flash: Please pick up after walking your dogs on St Thomas land. Remember, this is a private university, but “your” streets/sidewalks are public. No one should litter or drive in a careless manner.
Perhaps a parking ramp instead of tennis courts would be more appealing to the neighbors.
Mr. Mackey is right on. It’s an inevitable consequence. Happy Char Olson has extra money for a parking permit. Lots of students don’t have extra permit money, but need cars for work, off campus housing and social events. Olson’s comment, “telling responsible and caring residents of 25 years”……….where in any post did someone say they were a 25 year resident? Hard to have a discourse when one does not trust the other.
Christine, perhaps you should invest in a house with a garage…just saying.
A major issue with parking lies with the authority and permits required to build a building over four stories. The Anderson ramp completed last year is only four stories tall, and as such cannot adequately provide for all the parking needs of the University. To build over four stories UST must have majority neighborhood support, and get the approval of the St. Paul Planning Commision, who placed a moratorium on UST’s land acquisition in 2004 and capped UST enrollment.
This limitation is an enormous issue when it comes to both UST housing and parking. UST has been consistently at or above 100% capacity for housing (in recent years lounges have often been converted into extended or wait-list housing) . It will not be cost efficient to build a new Residence Hall without this approval. With more students on campus, there will be less of a need for commuter parking, for which there are more permits then spots. This will move more students out of the neighborhoods and back on to campus.
One could cite the increasing incoming class size as a reason for the parking shortage, but there really is nothing the University can do. Acceptance standards are now the highest they’ve ever been. ACT Composites and HS GPA’s for recent years have been record breaking…
To be fair, I spit on St. Thomas’ sidewalks too.
To end all conversation about this…. UST…been around for 127 years. Unless you are around 150 years old (what up Tuck Everlasting) then you moved into this neighborhood AFTER UST was here. Yes the school has grown and changed a lot since then, but the fact that you moved into a college area, requires and understanding that the school isn’t going anywhere and the college students will forever be here.